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ELEVEN ARTS / Right Stuf / Shout! Factory licenses MAQUIA: WHEN THE PROMISED FLOWER BLOOMS

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  • #16
    I guess I'll wait for the deluxe edition and hope it doesn't have these issues, but it's odd that RightStuf is still not listing it, even though it's supposed to come out in March.

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    • #17
      Eleven Arts announced the dexule version was delayed.
      "WHO ARE YOU CALLING A RUNT SO TINY HE CAN ONLY BE SEEN THROUGH A MAGNIFYING GLASS, YOU JERK!!!!" - Edward Elric

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Diakia89 View Post
        Eleven Arts announced the dexule version was delayed.
        Sorry, somehow I missed Arialys's and Chisel's posts talking about it. Since the Blu-ray authors employed by Eleven Arts apparently can't grasp the concepts of locked subs and seamless branching, I guess I can only hope that the deluxe edition will include two BDs, so that the dubbed and hardsubbed versions of the movie can be encoded at a higher bitrate. The low bitrate actually bothered me more than the hardsubs.
        Last edited by Zhou; 01-30-2019, 10:20 AM.

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        • #19
          I emailed Shout about the hardsubs/separate video files and they said they were required to author the disc in this way for this particular release. I am guessing it is something the JP required from them.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Zhou View Post
            Since the Blu-ray authors employed by Eleven Arts apparently can't grasp the concepts of locked subs and seamless branching
            Locked subs can easily be circumvented. Whether that was the actual reason why the licensor demanded the hardsubs for this reason is anyone's guess. It's strange though because while I say 'easily circumvented', the vast majority of people won't know how or even have the desire to do so, especially when it's likely 99% of them won't be using a PC to play these discs. The ones that can are those who may rip for archival purposes into their media servers. The rest don't care. So this probably either a case of severe paranoia or an incompetent authorer who doesn't know how to softsub a subtitle track, or in this case lock subs.

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            • #21
              via TRSI:

              Maquia: When the Promised Flower Blooms (Blu-ray LE) - 115 minutes - $89.99 - 5/28/19
              Maquia: When The Promised Flower Blooms Limited Edition contains the anime movie directed by Mari Okada and contains *two books which is housed in a chipboard box.

              *CONTENTS SUBJECT TO CHANGE

              Special Features: To Be Determined

              EDIT: https://twitter.com/NozomiEnt/status...07600383574016
              We will be doing the authoring on the LE discs, just like we did with Haikara-san.
              Last edited by WTK; 01-31-2019, 06:08 PM.

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              • #22
                That's--more money than I was expecting. I'll need to hear more about the release, like what the books are, if it's hard subbed, etc. before I make a decision for the LE.

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                • #23
                  I may just go with the UK Anime Limited CE release, it's a lot cheaper than the US one, even importing with conversion and shipping.

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                  • #24
                    Maybe the custom box art cost them a lot of money. lol

                    Or they're charging that much because it's custom artwork.
                    @Asrialys | MyAnimeList | DVD/BD Collection (aka My Backlog...)

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Sensuifu View Post

                      Locked subs can easily be circumvented. Whether that was the actual reason why the licensor demanded the hardsubs for this reason is anyone's guess. It's strange though because while I say 'easily circumvented', the vast majority of people won't know how or even have the desire to do so, especially when it's likely 99% of them won't be using a PC to play these discs.
                      The only thing I can think of that could have led to this weird scenario is that the licensor figured that if someone in Japan was going to reverse-import this release, that someone would want to be watching with Japanese audio, therefore hardsubbing the video file with the Japanese audio attached to it was a more guaranteed deterrent than the typical locked subtitles? And thus that necessitated the creation of a second, clean video file so that people in the target region of release wouldn't have to watch the dub over hardsubbed video?

                      The dumb part of that line of thinking is that it only makes it a deterrent for a very narrow additional sliver of Japanese fans. Specifically: Japanese fans who want to save money by reverse-importing, who definitely want Japanese audio (versus wanting an opportunity to hear the dub for novelty's sake), who don't already know any of the locked subtitle workarounds, who aren't ripping the disc contents for whatever reason, and who aren't bothered by English subtitles being onscreen.

                      The last two criteria are key, and the latter seems to be particularly overlooked in the whole discussion of locked subtitles ever since they became a widespread thing.

                      To address that latter, I would think most people are just going to buy a disc and stick it in their standalone player or stock computer player. Thus they aren't thinking about, or going to even know about, any of the locked subtitle workarounds. So when you consider how many US anime Blu-ray releases regularly sell or rank highly on Amazon Japan, the implication is that you have quite a few people in Japan watching these discs in Japanese with English subtitles they can't get rid of. It seems strange to think about, but suggests that A) locked subtitles aren't really doing as much as any licensor thinks, even if people don't know how to remove them, and B) this new strange attempt with Maquia isn't going to deter any of those people either.

                      It's also worth pointing out yet again that with the exception of the now-dormant NISA, every US studio that employs locked subtitles is absolutely and completely terrified at making clear via packaging or advance communication that any given release does in fact contain locked subtitles. So, I still don't have any idea how it's supposed to be an actual reverse-important deterrent if nobody in Japan knows about it until after the fact. The implication is that the licensor assumes casual importing Japanese fans will just happen to find out about it via online comments from the first few buyers or overseas (read: US) fans, I guess, maybe, probably?

                      To address my former of those two points as it relates to Maquia specifically, when you consider that there are definitely people out there who rip discs for their own particular uses (whatever those may be), this whole maneuver still isn't preventing anything. By which I mean, you just rip the Japanese audio, and the clean video file, and combine them. And wow, magically, thus: a version that has Japanese audio and clean video.

                      So in the end, I don't know. I guess if this is a licensor mandate as Pikagreg says it could be based on communication with Shout Factory, which I think is definitely more likely than Shout and Eleven Arts being unable to find a competent authoring individual or company, then it's just proof that people can in fact be even dumber than you expect, and adds yet another entry to the list of "How the Japanese are the Best at Screwing Up Anime."
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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Hayate Kurogane View Post

                        The only thing I can think of that could have led to this weird scenario is that the licensor figured that if someone in Japan was going to reverse-import this release, that someone would want to be watching with Japanese audio, therefore hardsubbing the video file with the Japanese audio attached to it was a more guaranteed deterrent than the typical locked subtitles? And thus that necessitated the creation of a second, clean video file so that people in the target region of release wouldn't have to watch the dub over hardsubbed video?

                        The dumb part of that line of thinking is that it only makes it a deterrent for a very narrow additional sliver of Japanese fans. Specifically: Japanese fans who want to save money by reverse-importing, who definitely want Japanese audio (versus wanting an opportunity to hear the dub for novelty's sake), who don't already know any of the locked subtitle workarounds, who aren't ripping the disc contents for whatever reason, and who aren't bothered by English subtitles being onscreen.

                        ....


                        So in the end, I don't know. I guess if this is a licensor mandate as Pikagreg says it could be based on communication with Shout Factory, which I think is definitely more likely than Shout and Eleven Arts being unable to find a competent authoring individual or company, then it's just proof that people can in fact be even dumber than you expect, and adds yet another entry to the list of "How the Japanese are the Best at Screwing Up Anime."
                        I'm curious whether there's also an underlying reason beyond what we always see on the surface, that is, what if it's not just enforced toward the targeted segment that the discs are made for? In other words, it may not be a deterrent primarily aimed at the 'target segment', rather, the rest of the world in general?

                        So instead of the Japanese worrying about local buyers reverse-importing and muxing a clean version, they're probably worried about what other regions are going to do with it. Thus in addition to the coded regions, the importers now how to worry about hardsubs, something that is one or two extra steps involved to get a clean mux. Are they willing to go so far as to do all that? Maybe. And probably a definite 'yes' if titles like this won't be made available to their market for the longest time, if ever.

                        But it's a risk the importers are willing to take. Some governments are really strict in what passes through international borders, and if caught even with legitimate software (though not licensed for that area), there may be severe penalties if prosecuted. It's also why JP EMS has long been vigilant of mailing out stuff deemed questionable by other countries. Every package they get a 'red flag' on just by looking at the packing list, prompts them to investigate, open up the package, remove the restricted items, reseal, and ship. The same can be said vice-versa from the receiving country. If the recipient finds out his stuff wasn't delivered, chances are, it's been confiscated.

                        Which then goes back to questioning: "Why Japan?" In the age of streaming media, piracy via physical media is probably the lowest it's ever been. When people are spending $5-$20 a month for a streaming platform with libraries of content, who are really buying these Blu-rays that sell for just as much or more per title? Collectors. Collectors usually don't care about re-muxing titles unless it calls for reasons due to undesirable quality/content from those releases. Re-muxing better video together with better audio is not unheard of from the niche capable of doing so. I've done it myself. But it's something we all rather avoid having to do. Nobody else is willing to extend that same attention, especially not your average collector. Even hardcore collectors would rather wait for a less-faulty release from different regions if the price is right.

                        But the points you brought up still hold, because anybody who has the know-how and motivation to mux a clean copy to their desired structure can do so. And not all collectors are a/v aficionados. And not all collectors are bothered by hard/locked subs they won't be actively reading despite taking up some of the screen.

                        I also believe this is just the Japanese licensor asking for the most ridiculous mandates. Otherwise I doubt the publisher is going to spend the extra pennies for a dual-layer disc over a single-layer pressing if they had the option. Questionable management if they were really ignorant of this factor. If there was a precedent of Eleven Arts authoring titles this way, then I'd question this practice and the person behind it. So far, it doesn't look this way and it's probably the licensor making things unnecessarily complicated.

                        Why presume your markets are a bunch of thieves..might as well not release on the format in the first place if it was such a loss? Or is it the publisher ultimately formatting these in such a way as to not lose their market share from other regional publishers, and making the licensor the scapegoat? I have vague memories if there were ever direct statements from the licensors themselves about the release structure, or have we've been all told by the publishing companies? I can't remember the last time a licensor went out of their way to clarify/reaffirm why their publisher was releasing a particular title in the specific layout deemed necessary for them. Someone can correct me if there's anything more recent where this applied. Hard to tell.

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                        • #27
                          BD LE:

                          https://twitter.com/shawnekleckner/s...03131898888192
                          The Limited Edition of this title will be available exclusively at http://RightStufAnime.com @rightstufanime
                          https://twitter.com/shawnekleckner/s...03325554282496
                          This title will be released by Right Stuf under the Eleven Arts imprint, as was Haikara-san. The standard edition release will be from Shout Factory.

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                          • #28
                            I'm certainly glad to hear that at least Right Stuf is doing their own authoring, and they are trying hard to at least avoid hardsubbing that would compromise the picture quality of the BD. It's a good thing they realize how messed up the Shout Factory release is, so delaying the LE was certainly the right move to sort this issue out as getting it done right is far more important than getting it on schedule. When releasing a LE version, at the very least buyers deserve the best they could possibly get, something that the Shout Factory version just fails to do. Once again, locked subs are understandable and at least only affect a small portion of potential buyers. But not for hardsubs as they are acceptable for on-screen text only since they are needed no matter how you watch it, but not as a subtitle track.
                            MyAnimeList | Avatar: Super Bowl LIII from Atlanta
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                            • #29
                              https://twitter.com/ELEVEN_ARTS/stat...95579211796482
                              Pre-order Maquia Deluxe!!

                              Thank you for waiting! We translated 100+ pgs of extra content for you:

                              A scenario by Mari Okada featuring moments not seen in the film
                              + the ENTIRE FILM side by side with the storyboards
                              + 22min "Making of Maquia"

                              Go here >> https://www.rightstufanime.com/Maqui...dition-Blu-ray

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                              • #30
                                Screenshot comparison between the Hardsub vs Dub.

                                Comparison between JP BD versus Shout Dub

                                Comparison between JP BD and Shout hardsub

                                Last edited by Sensuifu; 02-04-2019, 11:16 PM.

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