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Maiden Japan licenses Patlabor The Mobile Police (OVA, TV series, The New Files, Movies)

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  • Re: Maiden Japan licenses Mobile Police Patlabor TV

    So, I registered finally after reading this thread. I just got the first Patlabor TV BD set and it looks like Maiden Japan got a cut version of the dub. The disc opens up with a warning message of sorts (and has an insert inside the case that duplicates this message) that mentions in order to make the dub work with the same video stream, they would have had to make compromises to the quality of the stream. So as a result, they set it up that once you start playing with one audio/sub combo, you can't change it on the fly (sounds like locked subtitles, right?). Anyway, they have a bonus feature on the main menu that shows the "undubbed footage" compared to the dub. It plays a clip from the Japanese version, then switches to the dub version so you can compare the changes. It plays a couple clips from episodes 1, 3, and 4 on Disc 1 as I recall.

    So for episode 1, the opening scene with the drunk Labor pilot against Asuma and Ota, they show the drunk shouting how they don't understand him as he takes a swig from the bottle. The dub version plays shortly after the scene completes. The shot of the guy taking the drink is missing, and Asuma's orders to exit the Labor are instead played over the footage of the Labor stepping forward. However, I compared this scene to my old CPM DVDs, and the dub doesn't omit any of this scene. Asuma's orders are given while he is on screen the whole time, and then the Labor steps forward.

    It's a bit disappointing that this version isn't really complete, especially since CPM obviously dubbed some if not all of these scenes that are supposedly missing.
    Last edited by Russ Shackleford; 07-12-2013, 02:57 AM.

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    • Re: Maiden Japan licenses Mobile Police Patlabor TV

      Originally posted by Russ Shackleford View Post
      So, I registered finally after reading this thread. I just got the first Patlabor TV BD set and it looks like Maiden Japan got a cut version of the dub. The disc opens up with a warning message of sorts (and has an insert inside the case that duplicates this message) that mentions in order to make the dub work with the same video stream, they would have had to make compromises to the quality of the stream. So as a result, they set it up that once you start playing with one audio/sub combo, you can't change it on the fly (sounds like locked subtitles, right?). Anyway, they have a bonus feature on the main menu that shows the "undubbed footage" compared to the dub. It plays a clip from the Japanese version, then switches to the dub version so you can compare the changes. It plays a couple clips from episodes 1, 3, and 4 on Disc 1 as I recall.

      So for episode 1, the opening scene with the drunk Labor pilot against Asuma and Ota, they show the drunk shouting how they don't understand him as he takes a swig from the bottle. The dub version plays shortly after the scene completes. The shot of the guy taking the drink is missing, and Asuma's orders to exit the Labor are instead played over the footage of the Labor stepping forward. However, I compared this scene to my old CPM DVDs, and the dub doesn't omit any of this scene. Asuma's orders are given while he is on screen the whole time, and then the Labor steps forward.

      It's a bit disappointing that this version isn't really complete, especially since CPM obviously dubbed some if not all of these scenes that are supposedly missing.
      This sounds a lot like seamless branching to me. The last anime to get released that way was with FUNimation's Slayers seasons 1-3 & the Dragon Ball Z Dragon Box DVDs (undubbed previews on their Japanese streams only) and most recently with their Blu-ray of the Dragon Age movie (different edits on both versions and the DVD had two discs for both).

      I guess this also explains why both DVD & BD sets have more discs than usual since the second set goes back to their usual amount (2 BDs & DVDs).
      Last edited by NJ_; 07-12-2013, 06:46 AM.
      Avatar: From Sailor Moon S Episode 118 "The Battle in a Demonic Dimension! The Sailor Soldier's Bet"

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      • Re: Maiden Japan licenses Mobile Police Patlabor TV

        Originally posted by Russ Shackleford View Post
        So, I registered finally after reading this thread. I just got the first Patlabor TV BD set and it looks like Maiden Japan got a cut version of the dub. The disc opens up with a warning message of sorts (and has an insert inside the case that duplicates this message) that mentions in order to make the dub work with the same video stream, they would have had to make compromises to the quality of the stream. So as a result, they set it up that once you start playing with one audio/sub combo, you can't change it on the fly (sounds like locked subtitles, right?). Anyway, they have a bonus feature on the main menu that shows the "undubbed footage" compared to the dub. It plays a clip from the Japanese version, then switches to the dub version so you can compare the changes. It plays a couple clips from episodes 1, 3, and 4 on Disc 1 as I recall.

        So for episode 1, the opening scene with the drunk Labor pilot against Asuma and Ota, they show the drunk shouting how they don't understand him as he takes a swig from the bottle. The dub version plays shortly after the scene completes. The shot of the guy taking the drink is missing, and Asuma's orders to exit the Labor are instead played over the footage of the Labor stepping forward. However, I compared this scene to my old CPM DVDs, and the dub doesn't omit any of this scene. Asuma's orders are given while he is on screen the whole time, and then the Labor steps forward.

        It's a bit disappointing that this version isn't really complete, especially since CPM obviously dubbed some if not all of these scenes that are supposedly missing.
        Well, that stinks. My copy just shipped, so I won't have it until next week.
        "The woman I love burns with jealousy, leaps to conclusions, cries, and turns to ice, but when she laughs, the world is mine." - Yusaku Godai from Maison Ikkoku

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        • Re: Maiden Japan licenses Mobile Police Patlabor TV

          Originally posted by Russ Shackleford View Post
          I just got the first Patlabor TV BD set and it looks like Maiden Japan got a cut version of the dub. (snip)

          It's a bit disappointing that this version isn't really complete, especially since CPM obviously dubbed some if not all of these scenes that are supposedly missing.
          That's... incredibly bizarre. If CPM had edited footage for it's dub on the DVDs the Japanese audio wouldn't have synched up. I don't recall any complaints about editing back when those DVDs existed so I have absolutely no idea what's going on here.

          Ordinarily this news would be most unwelcome but... well, let's just say that for all the "effort" the mostly-absent ADR director put into the dub, Palabor may as well be a subtitled-only release.
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          • Re: Maiden Japan licenses Mobile Police Patlabor TV

            Originally posted by NJ_ View Post
            This sounds a lot like seamless branching to me. The last anime to get released that way was with FUNimation's Slayers seasons 1-3 & the Dragon Ball Z Dragon Box DVDs (undubbed previews on their Japanese streams only) and most recently with their Blu-ray of the Dragon Age movie (different edits on both versions and the DVD had two discs for both).

            I guess this also explains why both DVD & BD sets have more discs than usual since the second set goes back to their usual amount (2 BDs & DVDs).
            See, I would have said it sounded like seamless branching too (that was the name I was wracking my brain to remember last night), but the note in the set specifically mentions that the version played is based on what language you select in the main menu and it can't be changed via remote afterwards. You have to return to the menu to swap it. So if anything, it looks like it's a combo of seamless branching and the locked subs stuff, since old seamless branching used to still let you switch streams on the fly as long as you weren't in part of the video that differed from the other. This won't do that.

            Originally posted by Legion View Post
            That's... incredibly bizarre. If CPM had edited footage for it's dub on the DVDs the Japanese audio wouldn't have synched up. I don't recall any complaints about editing back when those DVDs existed so I have absolutely no idea what's going on here.

            Ordinarily this news would be most unwelcome but... well, let's just say that for all the "effort" the mostly-absent ADR director put into the dub, Palabor may as well be a subtitled-only release.
            Yeah, it's very strange. It almost appears like the dub masters used were some kind of broadcast versions, since they remove a lot of alcohol references I noticed, but some of them are just time cuts. Anyone that plans to watch it subbed is good to go though, because it doesn't appear to be missing anything at all. I can't disagree that the dub leaves a lot to be desired, but this certainly doesn't help, especially knowing that these supposedly undubbed scenes actually did get dubbed. I'd love to find out what happened to result in this cut version being the version Maiden Japan got.

            Another example I checked last night is in the 4th episode. After Noa shocks the monster, Ota bring a tree to attack it with. The original dub matches the Japanese version, where you see Ota walk past Asuma in the truck, and then off-screen, him and Noa argue about attacking it. This lasts for probably 10-15 seconds, then Ota's Labor and the tree fall down in front of Asuma. In the BD version, Ota walks off-screen, starts to argue with Noa, and probably 4-5 seconds later comes back. It doesn't have the entire argument that they had on the DVD, and Asuma has a very awkward jump cut where his position changes rapidly in the truck.

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            • Re: Maiden Japan licenses Mobile Police Patlabor TV

              Originally posted by Legion View Post
              Originally posted by Russ Shackleford View Post
              I just got the first Patlabor TV BD set and it looks like Maiden Japan got a cut version of the dub. (snip)

              It's a bit disappointing that this version isn't really complete, especially since CPM obviously dubbed some if not all of these scenes that are supposedly missing.
              That's... incredibly bizarre. If CPM had edited footage for it's dub on the DVDs the Japanese audio wouldn't have synched up. I don't recall any complaints about editing back when those DVDs existed so I have absolutely no idea what's going on here.

              Ordinarily this news would be most unwelcome but... well, let's just say that for all the "effort" the mostly-absent ADR director put into the dub, Palabor may as well be a subtitled-only release.
              It sounds to me like they may have been given a TV edit of the dub instead of the uncut from the CPM DVDs. Looking through old ANN articles, it aired on a few different TV channels here around 7-8 years ago. It could have been edited for one of those.

              I agree that the dub is awful though so in this case I don't care either as long as the Japanese track is uncut.

              It seems like Sentai/Maiden Japan have difficulty acquiring the right English materials for some of these older shows they've rescued. This is like the 3rd or 4th time there's been some issue with the English track.
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              • Re: Maiden Japan licenses Mobile Police Patlabor TV

                A bit of a typo in the credits. They have Akemi Taka as the character designer, when it should be Takada.

                I'm liking the set, though not having any kind of subs with the dub gets annoying in the noisier segments. Even the signs aren't subbed in the dub version.

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                • Re: Maiden Japan licenses Mobile Police Patlabor TV

                  Snapshot of the insert from the set 1 BD.

                  https://twitter.com/CrusherJ/status/...425344/photo/1
                  Things that make me go WTF, opening up the Patlabor case and seeing this insert. pic.twitter.com/Od2KfCTkMq

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                  • Re: Maiden Japan licenses Mobile Police Patlabor TV

                    Originally posted by WTK View Post
                    Snapshot of the insert from the set 1 BD.

                    https://twitter.com/CrusherJ/status/...425344/photo/1
                    Things that make me go WTF, opening up the Patlabor case and seeing this insert. pic.twitter.com/Od2KfCTkMq
                    So it sounds like no one realized what they received until they were way into production and as opposed to going back to BV they just opted to use branching. This comes off to me as lazy and I can certainly feel sympathy for the Dub fans. The whole little world of Sentai / MJ / S23 need to get their QC issues fixed sooner rather than later. Wonder if future releases will be corrected with the complete Dub or will they let it roll on this way? If they did correct it for the future releases, I gotta wonder if they'll correct the first volume?

                    At least it sounds like the Japanese side of the equation is okay, so it won't bother me.

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                    • Re: Maiden Japan licenses Mobile Police Patlabor TV

                      This is not branching people, jeez. Branching means using the same video stream for multiple versions, and skipping (branching) some scenes depending on the version that is being played. This is done by providing a separate chapter playlist for the stream matching the corresponding version.

                      What Sentai did is just put different streams for the English and Japanese versions, basically you can consider both versions to be separate episodes (one dub only, and one sub only), but they hide this in the menu so you don't notice. The result is not being able to switch audio (because the other audio is in a completely different stream), and more disc space needed (because most of the video is on the discs twice).

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                      • Re: Maiden Japan licenses Mobile Police Patlabor TV

                        Originally posted by progress View Post
                        What Sentai did...
                        You mean Maiden Japan.

                        Originally posted by JimmyG
                        The whole little world of Sentai / MJ / S23 need to get their QC issues fixed sooner rather than later.
                        Sentai Filmworks and Maiden Japan may both use the same disc authoring company (Seraphim Digital, I think?), but as far as QC goes (as well as larger decisions such as using different streams), they are completely different companies. Call out Sentai for their QC problems, and call out Maiden Japan for their decision to do what they did here if you want, but for the love of the NA anime industry, please do not blame both companies for one company's problems.

                        (And Section23 is a distribution company which would have no say in QC or other production matters, so don't look at them, either.)
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                        • Re: Maiden Japan licenses Mobile Police Patlabor TV

                          Originally posted by stardf29 View Post

                          but for the love of the NA anime industry, please do not blame both companies for one company's problems.
                          A little over dramatic there, aren't ya? They are all part of the same eco-system and need to get their act together.

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                          • Re: Maiden Japan licenses Mobile Police Patlabor TV

                            Originally posted by JimmyG View Post
                            They are all part of the same eco-system and need to get their act together.
                            The same ecosystem of "North American anime localization companies", perhaps. Still, this is Maiden Japan's problem; it's not something to group Sentai with.

                            And if I'm being over-dramatic, it's because I'm tired of people blaming Sentai for things that are not their fault, just because they've had a bad track record lately. I mean, I'm okay with the blame that is legitimately their fault, but I don't want to hear complaints towards them for an entirely different company's issues.

                            And on the flip side, I don't want to see even the implication that Maiden Japan has anything like the QC issues Sentai has, unless there is sufficient proof that Maiden Japan's releases have had issues other than this. Again, I don't want to hear complaints about them for an entirely different company's issue.

                            (And besides, this does not seem like a QC issue, but rather an executive decision to do what they did instead of... well, whatever alternatives were there; I sure am not going to presume I know what alternatives there are.)
                            Still alive and lurking.

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                            • Re: Maiden Japan licenses Mobile Police Patlabor TV

                              Originally posted by stardf29 View Post

                              (And besides, this does not seem like a QC issue, but rather an executive decision to do what they did instead of... well, whatever alternatives were there; I sure am not going to presume I know what alternatives there are.)
                              yeah, it's not a QC issue. As progress mentioned earlier, the discs were encoded with two separate streams for the respective language options. In the most simplest explanation, think of it as two separate, individual releases (sub only and dub only) only on the same disc. Remember the days of DLDS DVDs where widescreen(letterbox) was on one side and the other was formatted (pan&scan) to 'fit your screen' on the other side? It's something to that extent, albeit not on two different sides, just two different versions on one release. There is literally two copies of the same episode, each with their own language track. You can't change the languages on the fly because the individual episodes are strictly encoded with one language and the playlists weren't designed to cascade across these individual streams due to the aforementioned synchronization issue.

                              An example of the same episode having completely different files is evident of the subtitle track -

                              Japanese language episode
                              English language episode



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                              • Re: Maiden Japan licenses Mobile Police Patlabor TV

                                And the alternative (using branching) would have resulted in:

                                - if you started from the uncut JP version and switch to EN audio: an uncut EN dub with silence during the scenes that are not in the cut version (silence may occur right in the middle of EN dub lines)
                                - if you started from the cut EN version and switch to JP audio: a cut JP version with skips when a scene was cut (skips may occur right in middle of JP dub lines)

                                So Maiden Japan did the correct thing here. The right thing would have getting the original EN dub, but I can see how this could have been a problem, especially if you've been doing negotiations exclusively with Bandai and then have find out about this issue in the production stage.

                                And my bad about confusing Sentai/MJ.

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