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Honorific or Honorrible?

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  • #46
    Re: Honorific or Honorrible?

    ^ I'm pretty much the same way. I like dubs and translations that have scripts that make it easier for me to understand and enjoy, as long as nothing is CENSORED (though I'm willing to compromise, like with Pokemon), and the SPIRIT is still the same.
    Avatar: Ryoga Hibiki from Ranma 1/2

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    • #47
      Re: Honorific or Honorrible?

      Originally posted by _PS_ View Post
      the mispronunciation of Mireille's name in Noir.
      I've been informed that was intentional; supposedly, since the character is from Corsica, they researched how it would be pronounced there.
      As opposed to Japanese names where ADV just plain makes stuff up (any name containing "ao" being particular casualties).

      Stellvia is cemented in my memory as a show where they did a good job with names (Katase rather than Katasei). I seem to recall Shima calling her mother "Chi-chan" in the dub too, although I can't remember if honorifics were a major feature of the dub (or even the Japanese track for that matter, since the cast was international and it was set in space)

      On the subject of Simon, it is also pronounced "Shimon" in Japanese in the currently airing Majestic Prince.

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      • #48
        Re: Honorific or Honorrible?

        Originally posted by Hayate Kurogane View Post
        The difficulty, obviously, is that there isn't any go-to solution for adapting an "onii-chan" or "onee-chan" situation in a dub. Use the Japanese term as-is and explain it somehow (or don't), translate it literally and hope the context sorts itself out for the audience, go with just the character's name and thereby also handicap an aspect of another character's relationship with that character, or... what? I certainly don't have an answer.
        I'm reminded of the Negima manga where, despite Del Rey's commitment to honorifics and chart explaining at the front of every volume, they referred to Nekane as Negi's sister - only to find out many volumes down the road that she was actually his cousin. It's been a long time since I watched the anime and I never saw all of it dubbed so I can't remember how they handled it there.

        Just to throw in a pet peeve of mine, which also dovetails with the thread's mention of pronunciation: I really, really dislike the fact that dubs will, more frequently than other things, keep "-chan" for a particular character as a way of conveying that a character is being called by a nickname or with some level of familiarity by everyone else, yet then the cast runs around pronouncing it with a flat English "a" as you find in the word "hand" or "apple." I suppose if you don't know any better, then you don't know any better, but to me, it's just really obnoxious, and highlights how typically unnecessary that lone inclusion is in the first place.
        For Azumanga Daioh they used they excuse that it has no direct equivalent in English - hence mixing up "Chiyo-chan" with "Miss Sakaki" and "Mr Tadakichi".
        (which also reminds me of the Negima manga with its weird half-and-half atrocities like "sister-chan"...)

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        • #49
          Re: Honorific or Honorrible?

          Originally posted by Shiroi Hane View Post
          Originally posted by _PS_ View Post
          the mispronunciation of Mireille's name in Noir.
          I've been informed that was intentional; supposedly, since the character is from Corsica, they researched how it would be pronounced there.
          Ooh, I did not know that! Interesting.

          On the subject of Simon, it is also pronounced "Shimon" in Japanese in the currently airing Majestic Prince.
          All this "Shimon"ing must be intentional. Just to see, I Wiki'd some famous Simons and looked at the Japanese entry. Paul Simon (and the game!) is "Saimon" but the apostle Simon is called "Shimon" in Japanese.

          Now the word "Simon" looks funny to me.

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          • #50
            Re: Honorific or Honorrible?

            Originally posted by _PS_ View Post
            All this "Shimon"ing must be intentional. Just to see, I Wiki'd some famous Simons and looked at the Japanese entry. Paul Simon (and the game!) is "Saimon" but the apostle Simon is called "Shimon" in Japanese.
            As to names in the Bible, Christians in Japan usually use pronunciations/'spellings' which are nearer to those in classic languages than those in English.
            For example, they call Matthew (the Apostle) 'Mattay/Matthai'.
            Devotees of the Orthodox Church in Japan call Matthew (the Apostle) 'Matfej', via Russian, though.
            Japanese pronunciation of the name of the capital of France is nearer to /pari/ than /pوris/.
             

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            • #51
              Re: Honorific or Honorrible?

              Originally posted by kijakusai View Post
              Originally posted by _PS_ View Post
              All this "Shimon"ing must be intentional. Just to see, I Wiki'd some famous Simons and looked at the Japanese entry. Paul Simon (and the game!) is "Saimon" but the apostle Simon is called "Shimon" in Japanese.
              As to names in the Bible, Christians in Japan usually use pronunciations/'spellings' which are nearer to those in classic languages than those in English.
              For example, they call Matthew (the Apostle) 'Mattay/Matthai'.
              Devotees of the Orthodox Church in Japan call Matthew (the Apostle) 'Matfej', via Russian, though.
              Japanese pronunciation of the name of the capital of France is nearer to /pari/ than /pوris/.
               
              Yes, I expect this is all because Christianity was brought to Japan by the Portuguese, not English. I hadn't thought of that before.

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              • #52
                Re: Honorific or Honorrible?

                Originally posted by kijakusai View Post
                Originally posted by Hayate Kurogane View Post
                Something I've always wondered, and which this thread made me think of again: while it's true that "Simon" is a name that exists in English, and is pronounced more or less a certain way that is in contrast to its etymological origins... does anyone know if that is at all the specific name that was intended for our boy Simon in Gurren Lagann? ... So, I wonder if it's ever at all come up in any obscure interviews or such, any suggestion that Simon in Gurren Lagann just so happens to have a name that you'd write the same way we'd write the name we pronounce "Sai-mon" but which isn't actually that name specifically?
                According to the Japanese Wikipedia article, the name of the protagonist of Gurren Lagann is wordplay-wise derived from the Japanese word '下 simo' ('the lower part').
                Well, that explains that. It has nothing to do with the Western name "Sai-mon" whatsoever, so pronouncing it that way would have been categorically incorrect. Thanks for the information.
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                • #53
                  Re: Honorific or Honorrible?

                  Originally posted by _PS_ View Post
                  Yes, I expect this is all because Christianity was brought to Japan by the Portuguese, not English.
                  Another factor which can be taken into account is that the standard Japanese New Testament written in literary language, which was read also by Japanese who were not Christians, was translated from Eberhard Nestle's Greek New Testament in the Taishō period.

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                  • #54
                    Re: Honorific or Honorrible?

                    Originally posted by Hayate Kurogane View Post
                    Well, that explains that. It has nothing to do with the Western name "Sai-mon" whatsoever, so pronouncing it that way would have been categorically incorrect. Thanks for the information.
                    It's a pleasure.

                    In Japan, the name of the hero of the video game Akumajō Dracula (Devil's Castle Dracula, Castlevania) is pronounced as /simon/, rather than /saimən/, and the game company's site, too, says /simon/. Probably the game designer thought /simon/ was more Mittel-European.

                    When Japanese people watch Ray Harryhausen's Jason and the Argonauts, they usually call the protagonist Iason, by his Ancient Greek name, rather than the anglicised name Jason.

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                    • #55
                      Re: Honorific or Honorrible?

                      In Volume 3 of Saint Young Men, Buddha talks with Saint Peter via a mobile phone, and in the lines written in Japanese in the manga, Buddha calls him Petro-san.
                      'Petro' (the stem of the proper noun 'Petros'), which is nearer to the Greek version of the saint's name than the anglicised name, is the way used by Catholics in Japan to say the name of the saint.
                      'Petro' is also used in the Japanese New Interconfessional Translation Bible when the saint's name is mentioned.

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                      • #56
                        Re: Honorific or Honorrible?

                        Thinking about that, I believe the "John's Pen" thing that came up in an early episode of A Certain Magical Index was pronounced closer to Ioannes.

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                        • #57
                          Re: Honorific or Honorrible?

                          Originally posted by Shiroi Hane View Post
                          Thinking about that, I believe the "John's Pen" thing that came up in an early episode of A Certain Magical Index was pronounced closer to Ioannes.
                          You have a keen ear. ^_^
                          When Japanese Christians mention the name of the saint in question, which is 'John' in the Anglosphere, they say, 'Iohanne,' which is derived from the Latin version 'Iōhannēs'.
                          However, when Japanese devotees of the Orthodox Church mention the saint's name, they say, 'Ioann,' which is derived from the Church Slavonic word 'Ioann'.
                          Via pop-cultural works such as The Omen (dir. by Richard Donner), in Japan, also Joe Averages who are not Christians hear about the Apocalypse, and they, too, say, 'Iohanne,' when they mention the name of the Apostle.

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                          • #58
                            Re: Honorific or Honorrible?

                            In a chapter of Saint Young Men, Buddha talked with Jesus about Saint Valentine's Day, and in the conversation Buddha called the saint in question Valentinus-san, in the Latin way.

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                            • #59
                              Re: Honorific or Honorrible?

                              Honourifics are pretty par for the course with manga, which is comparatively not nearly as annoying as hearing them in anime dubs.

                              A little off-topic, but has the Saint Young Men manga been translated to English? I had no idea.
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                              • #60
                                Re: Honorific or Honorrible?

                                Originally posted by Legion View Post
                                A little off-topic, but has the Saint Young Men manga been translated to English? I had no idea.
                                I have not heard that a North American publishing firm has got a licence for the Saint Young Men manga.
                                I bought tankōbon of the Saint Young Men manga published by Kōdansha (Japan) and read them in the original.

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