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The Vision of Escaflowne Ocean Dub Mouth Flaps and 1 Second of Missing Audio

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  • [US BD] The Vision of Escaflowne Ocean Dub Mouth Flaps and 1 Second of Missing Audio

    Widgets Magazine
    So during my rewatch for the Ocean dub, I caught two minor audio issues while watching on my PS3 with my surround sound system. Can anyone else confirm these? Also, are these issues also present on the UK set? Really curious how these happened, though I can live with them.

    So on Disc 3, Episode 11 towards the end of it around 01:30:10, when Prince Chid is saying "That's because you came back.", after he's done saying this line, the mouth flaps continue a little past this, making me think there was missing dialogue. However, that is not the case. I went and checked my Bandai DVDs, on Disc 3 around 00:20:43 where this line starts, the mouth flaps don't go on past his line. This is past the DC episodes, so this can't be an issue with trying to sync the dub to those and messing up. Also the rest of that episode didn't have out of sync audio.

    Another issue I found, also on Disc 3 is in Episode 13 towards the start after the opening, around 01:58:45, while Voris is speaking

    Spoiler ->before he is about to die

    the audio cuts out for a single second in the middle of one of his lines. On the Bandai DVDs, Disc 4 around 00:03:00 is where this happens, and the audio didn't cut out at all there.
    Useful MAL Blog Entries | MAL | Anime-Planet | FilmAF | Manga | MFC | PSN: Videogameaddict2 | XBL: BigOnAnime94

  • #2
    Re: The Vision of Escaflowne Ocean Dub Mouth Flaps and 1 Second of Missing Audio

    I didn't encounter any issues. The minor, lip flap timing isn't an error and it was actually 'corrected' by Bandai. So instead of the lip flaps trailing after the dialog is finished, they cut those frames and duplicated still frames with his mouth closed. I'm a little surprised Bandai actually went so far as to do that. The problem is, it messed with the Japanese track, so the Japanese lip flaps are cut short.

    No audio drop outs either for episode 13.

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    • #3
      Re: The Vision of Escaflowne Ocean Dub Mouth Flaps and 1 Second of Missing Audio

      Interesting Bandai did that, it's been years since I last watched the Bandai DVDs (last time was around early 2013 in Japanese), will check the Japanese track to see how it was there.

      As for Episode 13, thanks for checking. While making this thread, I did go back and forth between the FUNi BD and the Bandai DVD just to be extra sure if there was something, and began to suspect it was just simply part of how the Ocean dub was recorded, the VA just having a slight pause while speaking his lines.

      Also on Twitter, I'm now hearing Bandai did the mouth flap edit to a few other shows as well, Gundam Wing and Gits SAC 2nd Gig being two examples, but the person telling me isn't 100% sure on the former. Looks like we may see something similar to what happened here in Escaflowne should those ever hit Blu-ray here (sadly the latter is looking like never...).
      Useful MAL Blog Entries | MAL | Anime-Planet | FilmAF | Manga | MFC | PSN: Videogameaddict2 | XBL: BigOnAnime94

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      • #4
        Re: The Vision of Escaflowne Ocean Dub Mouth Flaps and 1 Second of Missing Audio

        Originally posted by BigOnAnime View Post
        Interesting Bandai did that, it's been years since I last watched the Bandai DVDs (last time was around early 2013 in Japanese), will check the Japanese track to see how it was there.

        As for Episode 13, thanks for checking. While making this thread, I did go back and forth between the FUNi BD and the Bandai DVD just to be extra sure if there was something, and began to suspect it was just simply part of how the Ocean dub was recorded, the VA just having a slight pause while speaking his lines.

        Also on Twitter, I'm now hearing Bandai did the mouth flap edit to a few other shows as well, Gundam Wing and Gits SAC 2nd Gig being two examples, but the person telling me isn't 100% sure on the former. Looks like we may see something similar to what happened here in Escaflowne should those ever hit Blu-ray here (sadly the latter is looking like never...).
        Yeah, while I've synced the Wing dub to my Japanese Blu-ray box, I never bothered to check if the shot in question was similarly messed up on the original masters Wing was dubbed against. It's a scene with Zechs in the first... 6 or so episodes, where his mouth just keeps moving when he stops taking.

        As for 2nd GIG, the scene in question happens later in the season when Batou is talking to Gohda on a rooftop. On the BEI DVD, they removed Batou's mouthflaps, which makes the dub track look fine but causes issues with the Japanese track. On the Japanese BDs, and the Korean BDs since they use the same masters as the JP version, the scene is left alone, so his mouth moves during a scene where he's not speaking when watching with the dub.

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        • #5
          Re: The Vision of Escaflowne Ocean Dub Mouth Flaps and 1 Second of Missing Audio

          Ugh, I never would have bought any of Bandai's DVDs if I had known they messed with the video just so it would match the dub. Glad they're gone.

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          • #6
            Re: The Vision of Escaflowne Ocean Dub Mouth Flaps and 1 Second of Missing Audio

            Originally posted by BusterD View Post
            Ugh, I never would have bought any of Bandai's DVDs if I had known they messed with the video just so it would match the dub. Glad they're gone.
            It's also possible that Bandai dubbed to earlier masters which were then corrected later, so don't throw them under the bus completely since the big thing I've learned working on these things is sometimes you really don't know what you're getting. How later? Who knows. Sometimes the changes are really close to production, but I've seen shows with running changes up to 20, 30 years later.

            It's not infathomable that the later episodes of Escaflowne got a little polish that wasn't noted as 'Director's Cut" if they just fixed a few lipflaps.

            Interestingly, working on Lupin series 2, we found that Japan made a huge number of changes to the recent "remastering" that included painting in missing feet and messing with the lipflaps a lot.

            In episode 5, there's a scene where all prior releases (original JP airing, JP DVD, US DVD) there was a huge lipflap problem. They had Jigen saying Goemon's line and Goemon saying Jigen's line... in Japanese. This was how it aired in Japan and came out on DVD until the most recent release. When we dubbed this in America, the dub corrected it by swapping the lines. When they did the new Blu-ray release, they (kind-of-badly) changed the animation around so that the correct people were speaking in Japanese. Which then made the incorrect people speak in English. Augh. We were kind of in a rock and a hard place with this. We tried editing the dub, and a bunch of different things, and none of it worked. The "most right" thing we could think to do was to restore it to how it originally was for the last 30 years prior in Japan and just have the voices be in the mixed up order.

            Which is the most right though? It's now more authentic to how it originally was for the last 30 years, but the voices are obviously coming from the wrong person. You have to make hard choices like this sometimes and it's not obvious what's right to do and there's not always a 100% perfect answer.

            Another example is in the Sherlock Holmes-themed episode, there is a scene where the Sherlock guy is talking for a long, long time. In the older masters, including the Japanese version, his lipflaps run a long time and match his speech. In the newer masters, his lipflaps cut off early and you can still hear him talking for like 2 or 3 full seconds later. It looks very weird in both languages. Now, we don't know if what came before was "right" or "wrong" - when did they fix those lipflaps? After airing?

            My best guess was this was an animation flub they noticed in Japan and fixed on the earlier releases, and when they remastered it for DVD and Blu-ray recently, they must have forgot about it. Millions and millions of frames in that show, so it's easy to see how.

            In this case, since the fix would look visually correct all around, we ended up redoing the lipflaps to match the earlier release so they continued and things looked right in both languages. A huge pain in the ass, but we did it. I dunno if that's the most "authentic" thing to do, but it seemed like the right thing to do?

            In Darkstalkers episode 1, there's a scene where a young child is pulling stuff out of a box. In the Japanese version, and in the most recent masters we recieved, this scene suddenly jumps forward and is very jerky. If you watch the original VIZ US DVD, the animation is smooth and clear. There are 4-5 missing unique frames in the Japanese version, and who knows when this retake was sent to America or how we ended up getting it but the Japanese release did not. Since the clarity of the Japanese version was amazing, what we did in this case was pull the frames from the US version and completely restore them, including compositing in the better background and clean up all the lines and colors to match the fidelity of the pristine Japanese master.
            Last edited by Ashura; 02-06-2017, 02:51 PM.

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            • #7
              Re: The Vision of Escaflowne Ocean Dub Mouth Flaps and 1 Second of Missing Audio

              Originally posted by Ashura View Post
              Originally posted by BusterD View Post
              Ugh, I never would have bought any of Bandai's DVDs if I had known they messed with the video just so it would match the dub. Glad they're gone.
              It's also possible that Bandai dubbed to earlier masters which were then corrected later
              I somehow doubt that's the case as there's been multiple examples of them editing mouth-flaps mentioned in this thread, but it's a moot point anyway as they're long gone and I hardly ever buy US releases anymore.

              But thank you for the information on Lupin and Darkstalkers, that was honestly interesting.

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              • #8
                Re: The Vision of Escaflowne Ocean Dub Mouth Flaps and 1 Second of Missing Audio

                All those examples listed could easily be and are likely earlier masters, though. Japan sending earlier masters to the US has been a common occurrence for a long time. I am friends with the guy who was in charge of dubbing SAC and asked him about it. The masters for it came direct from Japan on HDcam. He remembers this because at the time transferring HDcam was so expensive it blew his mind.

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                • #9
                  Re: The Vision of Escaflowne Ocean Dub Mouth Flaps and 1 Second of Missing Audio

                  Kind of seems odd they'd send masters of something that shouldn't have been altered in the first place. I'm curious why the original language was edited when it's perfectly synced otherwise; and why they even cut their own dialog short, if it really is based from multiple masters. I might have to double check whether Escaflowne was dubbed first then followed up with the finished animation.
                  Last edited by Sensuifu; 02-16-2017, 04:15 AM.

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                  • #10
                    Re: The Vision of Escaflowne Ocean Dub Mouth Flaps and 1 Second of Missing Audio

                    Your mistake was watching the Ocean Group dub.

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